Comments on: The Dunning-Kruger Effect and the secret for coping with the incompetents around you http://www.directcreative.com/blog/the-dunning-kruger-effect-and-the-secret-for-coping-with-the-incompetents-around-you Dean Rieck on Copywriting & Direct Marketing Sat, 31 Jul 2010 01:56:46 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: GS http://www.directcreative.com/blog/the-dunning-kruger-effect-and-the-secret-for-coping-with-the-incompetents-around-you/comment-page-1#comment-50596 GS Tue, 16 Mar 2010 00:30:07 +0000 http://www.directcreative.com/blog/2008/02/15/the-dunning-kruger-effect-and-the-secret-for-coping-with-the-incompetents-around-you/#comment-50596 DF : "I worry that the increasing popularity of the D-K effect will actually do much to reaffirm the confidence of unskilled people in their own illusory greatness". I consent with the above comment. I think Dr. Dunning and Dr. Kruger just invented another word in the dictonary of people who like to call names on the ability of others, but ofcourse without checking on themselves first. I have an impression that this phrase "Dunning-Kruger effect" should be nominated as the best ironical term of the milinium. DF : “I worry that the increasing popularity of the D-K effect will actually do much to reaffirm the confidence of unskilled people in their own illusory greatness”.

I consent with the above comment. I think Dr. Dunning and Dr. Kruger just invented another word in the dictonary of people who like to call names on the ability of others, but ofcourse without checking on themselves first. I have an impression that this phrase “Dunning-Kruger effect” should be nominated as the best ironical term of the milinium.

]]> By: SL http://www.directcreative.com/blog/the-dunning-kruger-effect-and-the-secret-for-coping-with-the-incompetents-around-you/comment-page-1#comment-43682 SL Thu, 17 Dec 2009 15:39:54 +0000 http://www.directcreative.com/blog/2008/02/15/the-dunning-kruger-effect-and-the-secret-for-coping-with-the-incompetents-around-you/#comment-43682 Used to work for a guy just like this. When he was hired, several of us "less confident" people commented on his apparent lack of knowledge and skill. He revised monthly internal reporting requirements nearly every month. Just didn't know what he was doing, or what data needed to be reported. He managed to lay-off the majority of us (best thing that ever happened to me!) before the company president realized his mistake, and gave the guy the treatment he deserved. Used to work for a guy just like this. When he was hired, several of us “less confident” people commented on his apparent lack of knowledge and skill. He revised monthly internal reporting requirements nearly every month. Just didn’t know what he was doing, or what data needed to be reported. He managed to lay-off the majority of us (best thing that ever happened to me!) before the company president realized his mistake, and gave the guy the treatment he deserved.

]]> By: DF http://www.directcreative.com/blog/the-dunning-kruger-effect-and-the-secret-for-coping-with-the-incompetents-around-you/comment-page-1#comment-43634 DF Wed, 16 Dec 2009 22:17:57 +0000 http://www.directcreative.com/blog/2008/02/15/the-dunning-kruger-effect-and-the-secret-for-coping-with-the-incompetents-around-you/#comment-43634 Dean Rieck: "if I suggest a technique that has been proven by numerical results and it is rejected without logical evidence but merely on an assumption or because of personal taste, I think that qualifies as a good example of DK." Yes, I think this is right. I didn't see that kind of exchange happening in the first example in your blog. If you said to the interviewer, "Actually, extensive and credible statistical studies show that there is no 'magic number' for determining the most effective headline," and he simply responded by repeating himself, then his response seems to indicate the D-K effect. But merely asserting a confident conclusion doesn't mean you lack reasons, and my reading of the first interaction in your blog doesn't indicate that a substantive conversation took place. But then again, I may be wrong; your description may have left this information out. More generally, I'm skeptical that the D-K effect should be used as a means of reaffirming one's own superiority in the world. The ironies of the D-K effect are many, but among them is that the less skilled you are, the more likely you are to think that others are inferior. I worry that the increasing popularity of the D-K effect will actually do much to reaffirm the confidence of unskilled people in their own illusory greatness. Dean Rieck: “if I suggest a technique that has been proven by numerical results and it is rejected without logical evidence but merely on an assumption or because of personal taste, I think that qualifies as a good example of DK.”

Yes, I think this is right. I didn’t see that kind of exchange happening in the first example in your blog. If you said to the interviewer, “Actually, extensive and credible statistical studies show that there is no ‘magic number’ for determining the most effective headline,” and he simply responded by repeating himself, then his response seems to indicate the D-K effect. But merely asserting a confident conclusion doesn’t mean you lack reasons, and my reading of the first interaction in your blog doesn’t indicate that a substantive conversation took place. But then again, I may be wrong; your description may have left this information out.

More generally, I’m skeptical that the D-K effect should be used as a means of reaffirming one’s own superiority in the world. The ironies of the D-K effect are many, but among them is that the less skilled you are, the more likely you are to think that others are inferior. I worry that the increasing popularity of the D-K effect will actually do much to reaffirm the confidence of unskilled people in their own illusory greatness.

]]> By: Sax http://www.directcreative.com/blog/the-dunning-kruger-effect-and-the-secret-for-coping-with-the-incompetents-around-you/comment-page-1#comment-38962 Sax Thu, 17 Sep 2009 18:53:14 +0000 http://www.directcreative.com/blog/2008/02/15/the-dunning-kruger-effect-and-the-secret-for-coping-with-the-incompetents-around-you/#comment-38962 Only one name comes to mind, "OBAMA". Only one name comes to mind, “OBAMA”.

]]> By: Dean Rieck http://www.directcreative.com/blog/the-dunning-kruger-effect-and-the-secret-for-coping-with-the-incompetents-around-you/comment-page-1#comment-37427 Dean Rieck Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:03:44 +0000 http://www.directcreative.com/blog/2008/02/15/the-dunning-kruger-effect-and-the-secret-for-coping-with-the-incompetents-around-you/#comment-37427 DK: In the direct marketing field, techniques are judged by mathematics. Knowing which techniques work and which don't is a matter of experience with the actual results of testing. So if I suggest a technique that has been proven by numerical results and it is rejected without logical evidence but merely on an assumption or because of personal taste, I think that qualifies as a good example of DK. DK:
In the direct marketing field, techniques are judged by mathematics. Knowing which techniques work and which don’t is a matter of experience with the actual results of testing. So if I suggest a technique that has been proven by numerical results and it is rejected without logical evidence but merely on an assumption or because of personal taste, I think that qualifies as a good example of DK.

]]> By: DF http://www.directcreative.com/blog/the-dunning-kruger-effect-and-the-secret-for-coping-with-the-incompetents-around-you/comment-page-1#comment-37426 DF Fri, 14 Aug 2009 16:50:26 +0000 http://www.directcreative.com/blog/2008/02/15/the-dunning-kruger-effect-and-the-secret-for-coping-with-the-incompetents-around-you/#comment-37426 These examples might be the DK effect or they might not. It's certainly true that clinging to a simplistic rule in the face of reasons to the contrary may indicate overconfidence in one's competence. If these people were incapable of having a reasoned discussion in which they successfully defended their assertions, but clung to those assertions nevertheless, that would likely be a good example of the DK effect. We just need a bit more evidence. What's particularly tricky about the DK effect is that those suffering from it are most likely to attribute it to others. Remember, one of D&K's findings in their initial study was that highly competent people tend to assume others are equally competent, while the incompetent tend to assume others are inferior. So if you go around constantly invoking the DK effect w/r/t others' behavior, you just might be exhibiting it yourself. These examples might be the DK effect or they might not. It’s certainly true that clinging to a simplistic rule in the face of reasons to the contrary may indicate overconfidence in one’s competence. If these people were incapable of having a reasoned discussion in which they successfully defended their assertions, but clung to those assertions nevertheless, that would likely be a good example of the DK effect. We just need a bit more evidence.

What’s particularly tricky about the DK effect is that those suffering from it are most likely to attribute it to others. Remember, one of D&K’s findings in their initial study was that highly competent people tend to assume others are equally competent, while the incompetent tend to assume others are inferior. So if you go around constantly invoking the DK effect w/r/t others’ behavior, you just might be exhibiting it yourself.

]]> By: Dean Rieck http://www.directcreative.com/blog/the-dunning-kruger-effect-and-the-secret-for-coping-with-the-incompetents-around-you/comment-page-1#comment-37330 Dean Rieck Thu, 13 Aug 2009 05:21:20 +0000 http://www.directcreative.com/blog/2008/02/15/the-dunning-kruger-effect-and-the-secret-for-coping-with-the-incompetents-around-you/#comment-37330 Gosh. You sure put me in my place. Though you might consider that it's not ego when you have the expertise to know that those who disagree with you are actually wrong. :) Gosh. You sure put me in my place. Though you might consider that it’s not ego when you have the expertise to know that those who disagree with you are actually wrong. :)

]]> By: Lukas Kaiser http://www.directcreative.com/blog/the-dunning-kruger-effect-and-the-secret-for-coping-with-the-incompetents-around-you/comment-page-1#comment-37323 Lukas Kaiser Thu, 13 Aug 2009 04:03:54 +0000 http://www.directcreative.com/blog/2008/02/15/the-dunning-kruger-effect-and-the-secret-for-coping-with-the-incompetents-around-you/#comment-37323 None of your examples are the Dunning-Kruger Effect. You're just using Dunning-Kruger as a means to pad your own ego against people who dared disagree with you. None of your examples are the Dunning-Kruger Effect. You’re just using Dunning-Kruger as a means to pad your own ego against people who dared disagree with you.

]]> By: Ben Buchanan http://www.directcreative.com/blog/the-dunning-kruger-effect-and-the-secret-for-coping-with-the-incompetents-around-you/comment-page-1#comment-35861 Ben Buchanan Fri, 17 Jul 2009 13:36:14 +0000 http://www.directcreative.com/blog/2008/02/15/the-dunning-kruger-effect-and-the-secret-for-coping-with-the-incompetents-around-you/#comment-35861 I think the Dunning-Kruger effect can be a good thing sometimes! It protects us from hating ourselves. I'm not sure if i would want to knoow all my short falls! Here is a good video about it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jb8CXDhLPsA I think the Dunning-Kruger effect can be a good thing sometimes! It protects us from hating ourselves. I’m not sure if i would want to knoow all my short falls!
Here is a good video about it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jb8CXDhLPsA

]]> By: Erik http://www.directcreative.com/blog/the-dunning-kruger-effect-and-the-secret-for-coping-with-the-incompetents-around-you/comment-page-1#comment-2521 Erik Sun, 13 Jul 2008 12:03:52 +0000 http://www.directcreative.com/blog/2008/02/15/the-dunning-kruger-effect-and-the-secret-for-coping-with-the-incompetents-around-you/#comment-2521 I think your blog demonstrates the effect better than the examples of the people you cite as incompetent. It would have helped your case to demonstrate what competent people can do instead of only pointing out what your self-assessed competence led you to write. I don't disagree with your premise that it is a way to better understand annoying people who might not understand your level of knowledge in your particular skill set, but you are missing the other half of the study done by Dunning and Kruger. "In short, the same knowledge that underlies the ability to produce correct judgment [the best way to direct market] is also the knowledge that underlies the ability to recognize correct judgment.[to know why their reason's for objecting to your ideas were errant] To lack the former is to be deficient in the latter. So ultimately, it is ignorance and not arrogance that the study uncovered regarding incompetent's difficulties in recognizing their own incompetence which leads to inflated self-assessments. I think your blog demonstrates the effect better than the examples of the people you cite as incompetent. It would have helped your case to demonstrate what competent people can do instead of only pointing out what your self-assessed competence led you to write. I don’t disagree with your premise that it is a way to better understand annoying people who might not understand your level of knowledge in your particular skill set, but you are missing the other half of the study done by Dunning and Kruger.

“In short, the same knowledge that underlies
the ability to produce correct judgment [the best way to direct market] is also the knowledge that underlies the ability to recognize correct judgment.[to know why their reason's for objecting to your ideas were errant] To lack the
former is to be deficient in the latter.

So ultimately, it is ignorance and not arrogance that the study uncovered regarding incompetent’s difficulties in recognizing their own incompetence which leads to inflated self-assessments.

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