Whether you call then snap “packs” or snap “paks” or snap “pacs,” this little direct mail format has worked wonders for businesses of all kinds.

The photo shows a fairly typical snap pack: outer envelope that opens with one or more perforated strips, inserts, and order form. It’s really just a direct mail package that looks official.

While writing a column on this snap pack for DM News recently, I chatted with Ted Grigg about the snap pack format and thought it was so interesting that I decided to do a formal interview and share his know-how with you.

By way of introduction, Ted is the owner of DMCG, LLC, a direct marketing consultancy based in Dallas, Texas. Ted is what you might call a one-man “think tank” for direct marketing. If you’re not reading his blog, start. You’ll learn something with every post.

Ted is one of the smartest guys in direct marketing and was there when the snap pack burst onto the scene.

Dean: When was the snap pack invented?

Ted: To my knowledge, the Snap Pack was first tested by National Liberty Corporation in Valley Forge, PA in 1981.

Dean: Where did the idea come from?

Ted: In the late 70’s and early 80s, the IRS used UARCO’s continuous form Snap Pack to issue tax notices to millions of people. They were cheap to produce and personalize in large quantities using mainframe computers running the old 1430 impact printers.

Dean: Why do you think snap packs have worked so well over the years?

Ted: They looked like an official announcement by the government. The copy in successful Snap Packs also mimicked the well-known telegraph style with short sentences and factual information provided in the form of news or an important, special announcement. It was also like a special bulletin devoid of high pressures selling. Yet it was high pressures, because it sounded like something that was enacted by law.

In fact, some Snap Packs looked so official for Senior Medicare Supplement health care products that some state insurance regulators disallowed the use of Snap Packs in their states for long periods of time. It was considered deceptive advertising by some state insurance commissioners.

Dean: Are there certain types of offers well-suited to snap packs? Any that don’t work well?

Ted: Products that require high quality packaging and beautiful 4 color photography do not lend themselves to the Snap Pack sell. These would include such things as luxury automobiles, high-end cosmetics or portrait photography. Insurance, financial, training, fund raising and other non tangibles do well using the Snap Pack format and copy style. This approach still has applications that have not yet been tested and could probably beat a number of present direct mail controls.

Dean: How economical are snap packs compared to other formats?

Ted: In quantities of 100,000 or more, only large postcards or single piece self mailers cost less. You get 4 into 1 pieces for the price of a self mailer, yet the pulling power often exceeds the classic envelope package.

Dean: Does it take special equipment or stock to manufacture snap packs? How are they made?

Ted: It depends how you define the Snap Pack. There is only one supplier that still runs large volumes of Snap Packs using impact printing. The price is competitive, but the volumes are limited.

There are Snap Pack hybrids that have performed well and displaced a number of controls. But the people on the creative team need to familiarize themselves with the elements that make the classic Snap a winner and follow those as a guideline in the copy and design.

Dean: How different are today’s snap packs? I remember they used to have transferable carbon spots on the inside.

Ted: Yes they did. And those carbon spots gave the whole package its pulling power. The splotchy personalized names and addresses made it clear that the message was more important than the look. These packages are downright ugly, and that’s exactly why they work so well.

Think of the emergency broadcasting system. It sounds terrible on the radio and TV with that irritating “Beep… Beep… Beep,” but it grabs your attention. The message is more important than the production quality.

Dean: What is the typical call to action? Phone? Mail?

Ted: The action is the same as it would be for any offer made by the company. It can be every means available depending upon how recipients want to respond. We even associate a landing page for Internet response as we do for any other format.

Dean: Do snap packs work well for driving response to Web offers?

Ted: Snap Packs work well to drive response, period. The challenge is to get noticed, then investigated, then immediate response. These packages work well as two-step or one-step. The flexibility is the same as any other direct mail format when it comes to the offer.

Dean: I’ve seen snap packs used a lot for driving phone calls to hard-sell “get-rich-quick” businesses. Are there any negative associations with this format today because of this?

Ted: None that I know of. The proof is in the test results. And Snap Packs just win if they are created correctly. The heaviest users in the last few years were with banks, membership, fund raising and insurance companies.

Dean: Are there any special tricks for making a snap pack work well?

Ted: Yes. Keep it neat but official. Use serif fonts and don’t get too fancy with the layout. Keep the copy to-the-point with heavy use of bulleted benefits. Make it look official with return addresses that say “From the Department of …” and seals that look like they were created in George Washington’s day.

Dean: An AARP snap pack I saw recently included a thick plastic membership card. Are inserts typical for snap packs?

Ted: Yes. We’ve used temporary paper and plastic membership cards, personalized address labels, plastic car seals and just about anything else that could be used in standard envelope packages.

Dean: All things being equal, will a direct mail package outperform a snap pack?

Ted: The Snap Pack is a direct mail package, except that it is produced by a forms manufacturer in a continuous format. And better than 50% of the time, it will outperform anything out there in the direct mail kingdom if done correctly for products that do not need four-color support.

Dean: Is there some special power in the snap pack format, or is it really a matter of economical production?

Ted: It is more the power of the format and style rather than lower production costs. The cost in large quantities (over one million) will cost about the same or a little less for small envelope packages. Manufacturing processes today no longer require a continuous form Snap Pack to get maximum economies of scale.

Dean: Thanks, Ted. As always, talking to you is like attending a graduate course on direct marketing.

Steve Slaunwhite is an award-winning author, speaker and recognized expert in the best practices of high-response copywriting. More than 100 Fortune 500 companies, mid-size businesses, and publishers have relied on his copywriting expertise for direct mail letters, email letters, ads, web pages and other marketing communications.

Steve has written several top-notch books, including Start & Run a Copywriting Business, 101 Writing Tips for Successful Email Marketing, and The EVERYTHING Guide to Writing Copy.

I’m pleased to have a chance to share a few of his thoughts with you.

Dean: What is the most common mistake you see direct marketers make?

Steve: Not studying the list or target market BEFORE creating the campaign. The list contains the people you’re trying to persuade. To have any hope of selling them, you need to know what makes them tick. Example: Instead of running the same ad in multiple publications, study the reader profiles of each publication and customize accordingly.

Dean: What does the future hold for direct mail and print advertising? Some say direct mail and print will disappear.

Steve: The old-fashioned print sales letter still works very well. Print advertising is not going to disappear because people still read print publications. However, there’s no disputing the fact that online advertising is growing by leaps and bounds. Wherever there are READERS, there will be advertising.

Dean: I’m glad you said that. Reading is a huge part of direct response advertising. A lot of readers are turning to the Internet now. What effect do you think the Internet will have on direct marketing?

Steve: I think the Internet is an expansion of direct marketing, not a replacement. Many of the same direct-response principles apply, whether connecting to a prospect’s desktop, laptop or mobile.

Dean: What is the most innovative thing you see happening or on the horizon in the direct marketing industry?

Steve: I wish I was a visionary. But I’m not. I don’t have a clue what’s around the corner.

Dean: Well that’s honest. I think no one has a clue. What do you think about branding. Is it important in direct marketing?

Steve: Branding builds awareness. And awareness makes everything you do as a direct marketer easier. Dean, you probably get a higher response to your own marketing efforts because you’re a well-known brand. Joe Smith, “Direct Marketing Guy”, using the same marketing approaches would not get the same response rates because he’s not as well known.

Dean: I’m a brand? Guess it’s time to raise my rates. Is there one thing you ALWAYS do for any direct mail piece?

Steve: Strategically: Focus on the prospect. Structurally: Include a P.S.

Dean: Is there anything you NEVER do?

Steve: NOT focus on the prospect.

Dean: In your opinion, what is the single most important element of a direct mail piece and why?

Steve: The lead. If you don’t captivate the reader with a compelling headline and lead, readership will be low. And if readership is low, so is the response rate.

Dean: Again, reading is important. I agree. What’s your preference: plain envelope or envelope with teaser copy?

Steve: B2B: plain. B2C: teaser.

Dean: Can’t go wrong with that advice. Do you think dimensional mail is worth the extra cost?

Steve: Only if the salesforce is 100% behind it and follows-up. Otherwise, you’ll get a lot of expensive leads, but they won’t go anywhere.

Dean: That probably applies to just about any lead generator. More and more people seem to be using postcards. What are the best ways to use a postcard?

Steve: Making a free offer. I often use postcards to drive prospects to a landing page to download a free report.

Dean: Now let’s talk about e-mail. With all the abuse and spam concerns, e-mail marketing can be challenging. What do you think is the key to effective e-mail marketing?

Steve: Building your own in-house opt-in list.

Dean: Do you think e-mail marketing will get easier or harder in the years ahead?

Steve: We’re heading toward a 100% whitelist system. Not only will you have to get permission, but you’ll also have to persuade the prospect to add you to his or her whitelist or safe list. So, essentially, it’s going to be twice as hard to build a list.

Dean: Scary. But you’re probably right. Do you write elements of your copy in a particular order?

Steve: I tend to write the elements in logical order. For example: the letter, then the brochure, then the other inserts, then the order form. In the letter itself, I write from beginning to end. For some reason, I can’t do anything else until I get the lead of the letter (the headline and opening sentences) perfect.

Dean: I have to have a good lead before I proceed as well. But otherwise, I often write in a completely hodgepodge fashion. Whatever works, right? I’ve found that it helps to set copy aside for a few days and look at it fresh to see areas where I can improve and strengthen. Do you do that? Do you have any tricks for staying objective and fresh while working on a project?

Steve: Incubation is the key to great copywriting. Unfortunately, these days, everyone wants everything tomorrow. So there isn’t always time to put your copy in a drawer for a few days. If find that printing my copy and reading it on paper instead of on screen helps me gain a fresh perspective.

Dean: If you could give just one piece of advice for better copy, what would you say?

Steve: It’s not enough just to state the benefits. Bring the benefits to life … into the life of the reader. Don’t just say that a time management seminar will give executives two extra hours of productive time each week. Dramatize what those executives can do with those two extra hours. For example: Get home for dinner with the family more often!

Dean: In your opinion, how important is design?

Steve: More important than most copywriters care to admit to. We live in a visual society. Most people are viewers, not readers. The designer needs to be the co-writer of the piece, helping to communicate the key messages clearly and persuasively.

Dean: Amen. Ever since I started designing my own direct mail, I’ve had a huge boost in response. Design is part of the message too. Is there a certain medium you especially like to work in?

Steve: I enjoy working on sales letters in all formats: print, email, online.

Dean: Yeah, sales letters are fun. They’re the work horse of direct marketing. Thanks, Steve. I’m sure your advice will help a lot of people improve their response.

Roberta Rosenberg is a direct marketing copywriter and president of MGP Direct, Inc. She also runs The Copywriting Maven, one of the most popular copywriting blogs in the world. It’s a regular stop for me and I always learn something.

Besides being an experienced writer and a busy entrepreneur, Roberta is one of those rare people who really wants to help others succeed. I’m a huge fan and am pleased that she took time out of her schedule to share her considerable know-how. And so far, she’s the only copywriter to answer ALL my questions. That’s just how cool she is.

Dean: What is the most common mistake you see direct marketers make?

Roberta: They spend too much time in short-term thinking land and not enough time really thinking about relationship building and strengthening with prospects and customers.

Dean: What does the future hold for direct mail and print advertising? Some say direct mail and print will disappear.

Roberta: I don’t think any old media ever disappears but when new technology does something better — for example, digital delivery is faster, cheaper and decidedly more “green” — then we have to reexamine what older media does well and rethink how we use it in the mix. For example, DM may take longer to produce but its delivery rate is nearly 100%. Overzealous e-mail filters at the ISP, browser and deeper levels keep not only spam but legitimate mail from reaching its target.

Dean: What effect do you think the Internet will have on direct marketing over the next few decades? I’m thinking about the Web, e-mail, intelligent devices, wireless, everything.

Roberta: I think we’ll get messages sent directly into our brains 24/7. Seriously, though, I see fewer appliances, perhaps even one, that does everything. The days of juggling half a dozen or so of devices cannot last.

Dean: Hmm. Does that mean we’ll send messages direct from our brains? Yikes! I hope someone develops filtering for that! Okay. What is the most innovative thing you see happening or on the horizon in the direct marketing industry?

Roberta: At the moment I still see mostly confusion — or maybe it’s just me. Many companies are still having trouble articulating their vision, USP, whatever, no matter what the medium being employed. They still view their business as “all about them” as opposed as delivering an optimal solution/experience/promise that’s all about the customer. That’s not a technology problem, that’s a marketing problem.

Dean: That might be the smartest observation I’ve heard in a long time. Focusing on the customer seems hard for many companies. How about branding? Is it important in direct marketing?

Roberta: I think it is, but it’s not a driving factor. I see the brand as supportive to the ultimate message. The brand by itself motivates nothing.

Dean: Let’s talk direct mail, one of my favorite subjects. Is there one thing you ALWAYS do for any direct mail piece?

Roberta: Have the copy, art and printer’s proofs reviewed by a fresh pair of eyes, and always, always, always call any phone numbers listed in the package. We did this for a major architectural association catalog. Good thing, too, since they gave us a number which was actually a phone-sex line. I still think of that as a major save.

Dean: Yeah, but the devil in me would have liked to see the fallout from that phone number being published in the catalog. Is there anything you NEVER do?

Roberta: I never pooh-pooh the investment of the client in their mailing. Whatever it is they’re spending, it’s their $$ and I always respect it.

Dean: I’ve seen some strange things work in direct mail. What’s the strangest thing you ever saw work?

Roberta: This wasn’t strange but it would make any art director or production manager cringe. Years ago I had a personalized mailing prepped by a data management company who did impact printing. (This was in the days before laser personalization became affordable.) No matter how many times I had them correct it, the final proofs looked awful, barely readable. I let it mail and I knew I’d be fired. Turned out the offer and target market were so well matched, the look of the piece didn’t matter. Produced something like a 10% response and no, I wasn’t fired. This experience taught me that when the offer/target market I can write the copy with lipstick on toilet paper and get an acceptable response.

Dean: Lipstick on toilet paper. Now there’s an innovative idea. In your opinion, what is the single most important element of a direct mail piece?

Roberta: This is a trick question, yes? For packages, it’s the envelope because if your prospect doesn’t plow through this first challenge, you’re history.

Dean: Bingo. You win! I agree about the envelope being important. Most copywriters say the letter. But no one reads the letter if they don’t open the envelope, right? So what’s your preference: plain envelope or envelope with teaser copy?

Roberta: Depends, depends, depends. You need to test the variables and keep testing. You need to test something with every mailing.

Dean: Have you ever created a direct mail package without a letter? Did it work?

Roberta: Yes, because the client insisted over my objections. The piece tanked. Duh.

Dean: Serves them right. No letter? Please. Do you think dimensional mail is worth the extra cost?

Roberta: Absolutely. Curiosity and a touch of child-like wonder are terrific motivators. My favorite dimensional is a box. Who can resist the promise of a present? I know I can’t, and probably you can’t either.

Dean: Do you have a certain approach for creating direct mail?

Roberta: Knowing that DM is an expensive medium to produce and that response is measured by an ROI factor, I try to make sure that we don’t produce a BMW when a Beetle will do. Standard sizes, colors, etc. On the other hand, if I believe the promotion will be better served with all the stops out, I’ll push for the pricier approach.

Dean: What about self-mailers. Do you have any tricks for making them work?

Roberta: Unless your prospect can rip-off the BRC, place a quick check mark in the YES box and mail, don’t do a self-mailer. It amazes and appalls me how many mailers still don’t get that simple concept.

Dean: Agreed. But they’re fantastic for generating inquiries and sales leads. And then there are postcards. What are the best ways to use a postcard?

Roberta: Works well as a reminder about something you and your customer have already contracted for … drive a new prospect to a website or retail sale. Short, quick and obvious.

Dean: Lead generation is important for many sales organizations. How would you improve the average lead effort today?

Roberta: Decide how much self-selection of the prospect market they really want. With every challenge — for example, requiring a load of upfront info for a white paper or report — they’ll lose some prospects. The more motivated prospect will hang in for the report, premium, or whatever.

Dean: Right. Less is more in generating leads. Then there’s lead quality, which is a problem for many organizations. Where are most companies going wrong?

Roberta: There’s an ongoing battle between the sales team “These leads are crap! We can’t do anything with these.” and the marketing team “We give sales great leads and they sit on them. They don’t want to get off their asses and sell, they just want to kick back and take orders.” Always makes me think of the play, “Glengarry Glen Ross.” Simply put, marketing and sales departments have to find a way to play nice and work together. Neither department works in a vacuum. It continually amazes when I ask a client to have a group think with the sales department when we begin a lead generation piece.

Dean: Let’s segue to fundraising for a moment. What do you think are the most important differences between typical sales pieces and a fundraising appeal?

Roberta: I had a friend ask me about helping him with a fundraising appeal for an Israeli hospital. As we talked about the mechanics of the promotion he became exasperated and, half-kidding, asked me if there was a more dignified way of raising funds than, like, actually coming out and asking for money. Bottom line, fundraising is glorified begging. You have to embrace this truth to be effective because ultimately what we sell is a good feeling and a tax deduction.

Dean: I’ve found that many inexperienced fundraisers believe so much in their cause, they assume others will just give them money. But you’re right, you have to ask for it. No way around that. Do you have a formula or technique that you use when creating a fundraising piece?

Roberta: Yes, I let other copywriters handle this niche. I may do one or two pro bono pieces every few years, and even that would be a lot. I find the process emotionally draining because I take it all very personally. I can get jazzed about products/services and not feeling like I’m ripping open my heart and bleeding all over the page.

Dean: Let’s turn to e-mail now. Spam, list abuse, scams. It can be a challenge. What do you think is the key to effective e-mail marketing?

Roberta: Lists of people who actually want to hear from you (double opt-in) and have “white listed” your address in their address sections. The second most important point is to make the message scannable. As more and more of us are reading our e-mail on mobile devices we have to get in, get read, and get out quickly.

Dean: Do you think e-mail marketing will get easier or harder in the years ahead?

Roberta: If delivery continues to degrade and consumers paint all e-mail as spam, we’re going to have to find better, more welcoming environments for our marketing messages.

Dean: Let’s talk shop on copywriting. Do you have a set process for writing?

Roberta: Yes, I make the client sign an agreement and give me a deposit to begin work. When the financials are out of the way, I ask the client to complete a creative brief or outline of some sort. I like making the client think through the promotion, the components, USP, etc. It can be eye-opening when a client reviews the outlines and says they don’t know why someone would want their service or, and this is my favorite, they have no competition.

Dean: I like your focus on business. Do you write elements of your copy in a particular order?

Roberta: I always start writing the order form first. It forces me to review all the important elements of the package on a single sheet so it makes a handy checklist. It also serves as a copywriting ‘warm-up’ and helps me kickstart the fuller writing process.

Dean: I thought you’d say you start with the envelope. Interesting. I’ve found that it helps to set copy aside for a few days and look at it fresh to see areas where I can improve and strengthen. Do you do that? Do you have any tricks for staying objective and fresh while working on a project?

Roberta: A few days would be a luxury for me but I always try at least to let it set overnight for a fresh look in the morning. I also rely on a cadre of other copywriters/friends with brains to review my copy for flow, etc. and I do the same for them.

Dean: If you could give just one piece of advice for better copy, what would you say?

Roberta: Don’t get arrogant and think you know everything. I’ve been copywriting for 25 years now (yikes!) and still read everything I can lay my hands on. Also, steal smart. Keep a solid swipe file and when you need inspiration, thumb through and find a package that has the right “puch” (that’s Yiddish for texture.) Deconstruct it to its bare bones and overlay the skeleton on your own promotion. This technique can really kick-start a slow beginning.

Dean: In your opinion, how important is design?

Roberta: Great design supports a great message, but design shouldn’t overwhelm the message or call attention to itself. Analogy: Tell me I have beautiful eyes, not that you like my eye shadow.

Dean: Is there a certain medium you like to work in?

Roberta: I don’t have a preferred medium though my easy, breezy style works well in the Web world. As a writer, though, I enjoy crafting the letter/e-mail part of the promotion best.

Dean: I know what you mean. Web copy can be more fun sometimes. Do you have any secrets you can share, such as techniques or strategies that improve response?

Roberta: No real secret except to say that I don’t try to sell anybody anything. What I try to do with my copy is to help that prospect make the right purchasing decision for him/herself regarding a problem they may have (if a problem is the issue), thus beginning the relationship with respect and attention to the customer’s needs and wants.

Dean: I like that approach. Sort of a consultative approach. Thanks, Roberta. See? I always learn something from you!

Is there a copywriter anywhere who doesn’t know about Bob Bly? I doubt it.

Bob is the copywriter’s copywriter because he’s published so many books that have helped freelance copywriters get started and improve their business, such as Secrets of a Freelance Writer, The Copywriter’s Handbook, and Selling Your Services.

I’m pleased to have a chance to talk to Bob and share his thoughts with you.

Dean: What is the most common mistake you see direct marketers make?

Bob: Not understanding that in direct marketing, the money is made on the back end, not the front end.

Dean: What does the future hold for direct mail and print advertising?

Bob: I do not think print will disappear, but right now, all the focus and excitement is about online marketing. I am not a futurist so I don’t make predictions, but many feel that online marketing is fundamentally changing the way marketing is done … specifically, giving the customer a greater voice and moving away from advertiser-generated copy and content.

Dean: What effect do you think the Internet will have on direct marketing over the next few decades?

Bob: The Web is moving marketing from an advertiser-to-prospect model, where the advertiser sends promotions out to prospects, to a customer-centric model, where customers instead of marketers do a lot of the selling. Examples include viral videos where prospects pass your video on to other prospects, and Web 2.0 sites (e.g., Amazon.com) where customer-generated content (reviews) is more influential than marketer-generated content.

Dean: What is the most innovative thing you see happening or on the horizon in the direct marketing industry?

Bob: The big things are online video, viral marketing, and social networking. For a few thousand bucks, you can shoot a video, post it on YouTube, and get millions to watch it without paying to run commercials. Direct mail is just print, but with streaming video, Web sites can have it all: copy, photos, sound, and movies.

Dean: Is branding important in direct marketing?

Bob: A brand with high awareness can vastly improve direct marketing response rates. However, branding is usually subordinate to copy, list, and offer.

Dean: Is there one thing you ALWAYS do for any direct mail piece?

Bob: I always offer a premium.

Dean: Is there anything you NEVER do?

Bob: Not that I can think of.

Dean: What’s the strangest thing you ever saw work in the mail?

Bob: I read an article in a trade magazine that told of a mailing to Fortune 500 CEOs. They were mailed a box containing a live carrier pigeon. To reply, they filled in the reply element, attached it to the bird’s leg, and released it to fly back to the mailer.

Dean: I’ll have to remember that one. Is that considered a dimensional mailing? LOL In your opinion, what is the single most important element of a direct mail piece? Why?

Bob: The sales letter. You know the old saying: the sales letter sells, the brochure tells. A close second is the outer envelope.

Dean: What’s your preference: plain envelope or envelope with teaser copy?

Bob: I use both, but if I absolutely have to select only one, I will go with the plain envelope.

Dean: Do you have a certain approach for creating direct mail?

Bob: I start with problem/solution: what is the biggest problem my prospect has that my product can help him solve.

Dean: Do you have any tricks for making self-mailers work?

Bob: Make one of the panels a tear-off business reply card. Make another one of the panels a faux sales letter.

Dean: I use letters in self-mailers too. Very effective. How about postcards? What are the best ways to use a postcard?

Bob: Drive the prospect to a toll-free number or web site URL to request a free premium with high desirability and perceived value.

Dean: Most people know that you can improve response to a lead effort if you offer something free. Apart from that, what can sales organizations do to improve their lead generation efforts today?

Bob: In lead generation, use both a hard and soft offer. The soft offer is “send for our free guide.” The hard offer is “call to arrange an appointment.”

Dean: Many organizations have trouble getting good quality leads. Where are most companies going wrong and what can they do to fix the problem?

Bob: They ignore the soft offer, not realizing that most of their prospects are not in the market for their product or service most of the time, yet may be excellent prospects for a future sale.

Dean: Let’s turn to e-mail. With all the abuse and spam concerns, e-mail marketing can be challenging. What do you think is the key to effective e-mail marketing?

Bob: You get the best results e-mailing an opt-in list of prospects who know you and with whom you have a relationship.

Dean: Do you think e-mail marketing will get easier or harder in the years ahead?

Bob: Harder as spam filters and firewalls screen out more legitimate e-mail in an effort to squash spam.

Dean: Do you write elements of your copy in a particular order?

Bob: Usually start with the headline and the lead.

Dean: Do you have any tricks for staying objective and fresh while working on a project?

Bob: I work on client copy early in the morning, when I am freshest.

Dean: If you could give just one piece of advice for better copy, what would you say?

Bob: Understand the emotions and thoughts your prospects are having right now regarding your product or the problems it solves. For instance, if you write DM to sell stock newsletters, what economic worries are people obsessed with?

Dean: In your opinion, how important is design?

Bob: Very, but not as important as copy or lists.

Dean: Do you have a favorite medium?

Bob: I would have said direct mail a few years ago, but today, more than half my business is online copy, mainly landing pages and e-mail marketing.

Dean: Thanks, Bob. You’ve been generous with your time and advice.

Ivan Levison is a professional freelance copywriter who builds profits for high tech companies. He’s spent over twenty-five years writing direct mail, e-mail, and ads for industry leaders like Microsoft, Intel, Adobe, and Hewlett-Packard, as well as a bunch of great little companies too.

I’ve been a fan of Ivan for a long time and I’m thrilled to have a chance to pick his mind on a variety of direct marketing and direct mail topics.

Dean: Let’s start with an easy question. What’s the most common mistake you see direct marketers make?

Ivan: On the whole, I think dms do a pretty good job. That’s because they watch the numbers and learn. But perhaps they miss the little things. How to handle the business reply card. How to optimize the envelope, etc.

Dean: What does the future hold for direct mail and print advertising? Some say direct mail and print will disappear. Others say they will simply become more targeted. Still others say they will grow and become more important than ever. What is your opinion?

Ivan: As mailing decreases, the medium will become even more valuable because there will be fewer pieces crowding the mail box. I think direct mail will always have a place.

Dean: I agree. Direct mail is simply too effective to disappear. Now let’s turn to the Internet. What effect do you think the Internet will have on direct marketing over the next few decades? I’m thinking not just about the Web, but the whole Internet, including e-mail, intelligent devices, wireless, everything.

Ivan: I think the changes ahead will be enormous but it’s hard to pin down … things are changing so fast. Ten years ago, who would have predicted where we are today?!

Dean: True. I remember when I was in college a million years ago and thought about majoring in computers. But I couldn’t figure out what people would use them for. I guess that’s why I’m not Bill Gates. But if you could put on your wizard hat for a minute, what is the most innovative thing you see happening or on the horizon in the direct marketing industry?

Ivan: I think the new frontier is analytics; exploiting the data. The big mailers are already into this but I think insights garnered by analytics will work their way down the food chain.

Dean: Is branding important in direct marketing?

Ivan: The short answer is YES but it’s not as important as in the packaged goods arena. Branding in dm is most important to catalog mailers like Harry and David and LL Bean. Brand look and continuity are very important for them.

Dean: You’re a big time direct mail guy. So let’s talk shop for a while. Is there one thing you ALWAYS do when you create a direct mail piece?

Ivan: Yup. Try to identify the prospect’s pain and make sure that my piece promises a cure.

Dean: That’s short and sweet. You can’t go wrong with a problem / solution approach. Is there anything you NEVER do?

Ivan: I personally stay away from humor or getting “cute.” I’m more an old fashioned, straight ahead dm copywriter.

Dean: Well, I don’t think that makes you old fashioned. I think that just makes you pragmatic. I prefer a simple, straightforward approach too. I’m curious, in all your direct mail experience, what’s the strangest thing you ever saw that actually worked? For example, I had a client show me an order form that was broken up into four separate inserts, each a different color with random products on each piece. It looked crazy to me, but it worked.

Ivan: Perhaps this is not strange, but it struck me. A client wanted to do a “we pay the postage and handling” test. I thought they would be leaving money on the table but they were right. The offer was a fabulous success.

Dean: More proof that you never know until you test. In your opinion, what is the single most important element of a direct mail piece?

Ivan: The letter. That’s where you do the emotional, motivating selling … but of course, everything is important in a dm package.

Dean: What’s your preference: plain envelope or envelope with teaser copy?

Ivan: That’s one of those “it all depends” situations. This is well worth testing!

Dean: Have you ever created a direct mail package without a letter? Did it work?

Ivan: No. I’ve done self mailers, of course, but in a dm package with an envelope I’d never put down my most potent weapon.

Dean: I had to ask. I’ve never seen a package work without a letter. How about dimensional mail? Is worth the extra cost?

Ivan: For sure. Dimensionals get opened but they’re expensive. Again, it all depends.

Dean: Do you have a certain approach for creating direct mail?

Ivan: Again, I always start with understanding the target audience, the list, and the prospect’s pain points.

Dean: Most people know that you can improve response to a lead effort if you offer something free. Apart from that, what can sales organizations do to improve their lead generation efforts today?

Ivan: Keep mailing until the mailings don’t pay for themselves. Don’t give up after only one drop

Dean: How about lead quality? Many organizations have trouble getting good quality leads. Where are most companies going wrong and what can they do to fix the problem?

Ivan: They might consider spending more on a dimensional package and providing something tangible in the first mailing. I’ve had clients mail a book to prospects with very good results.

Dean: Excellent advice. Now let’s talk about copywriting and design in general. Do you write elements of your copy in a particular order?

Ivan: I start with the outer envelope, then move to the letter, then the other elements.

Dean: That’s interesting. I often do the same. I like the envelope and letter to work together as if the envelope is a “headline” for the letter. Also, I’ve found that it helps to set copy aside for a few days and look at it fresh to see areas where I can improve and strengthen. Do you do that? Do you have any tricks for staying objective and fresh while working on a project?

Ivan: I write the complete first draft and then put it away. I revisit it with fresh eyes the next day. VERY helpful!

Dean: If you could give just one piece of advice for better copy, what would you say?

Ivan: Sorry to go on about understanding the prospect, but that’s the place to work hard. If you can identify with the prospect, show that you understand their problem and then provide proof that you can help them, you’re on your way to success!

Dean: Don’t apologize. You’ve nailed it. It’s all about the prospect. Now about design, how important is it?

Ivan: VERY important! Most designers don’t have a clue. They just want things to look pretty. Working with a good designer, a dm designer, can make all the difference!

Dean: Is there a certain medium in which you especially like to work?

Ivan: I like the fun of writing letters. You can really do some persuasive writing in a letter. It’s the big canvas that’s fun to paint on.

Dean: Thanks, Ivan. I think you’ve shown why you’re a top gun.